NormanKuusik escreveu:

An interesting thought, and not altogether different from what I believe myself (so it is assuring to find confirmation).

Another aspect I would want you to consider is, if the fans of the music associate predominantly with it. Can we speak of a 'neofolker' as such? And if we can, can we also attribute them some stereotypical characteristics?

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ativke escreveu:

Male, IQ in the "bright normal" range, although they do poorly in school, have trouble holding down jobs and often work as unskilled laborers. They tend to come from unstable families with a history of psychiatric problems and alcoholism, usually abandoned by their fathers and raised by domineering mothers. High rate of suicide attempts, fascination with sado-maschoistic pornography, fire-starting. 60% wet their beds past the age of 12.

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Apollyon_ escreveu:

Interesting.

Now, I'm by no means well informed about much folk music past Agalloch, Sol Invictus and Ulver, but I can tell you a little.

The majority of Ulver fans are one of two thing - either black metallers, who revel in Ulver's earlier releases (Vargnatt, Bergtatt, Nattens Madrigal) and find Kveldssanger and subsequently enjoy it, through their black metal roots, aided by Ulver's folkish feel throughout their black metal albums too.

That, or they arrive at Ulver at a later date, at their avant garde works. This type of fan ranges from the open minded, curious metalhead, to the pretentious indie fan. They, I can only presume, arrive at Kveldssanger while exploring the Ulver discography, and they may be less inclined to like what they hear than the black metallers.

Most Agalloch fans fit into the black metaller-come-folk listener profile, and will listen to Agalloch's folk music, and enjoy it, but being 'metalheads' most will not pursue more folk music, and will stay with their metal orientations.

So, what I'm trying to say, simply, is that if a listener of a heavy metal band (broadly speaking) is introduced to folk through that band's change in style, it does not create a sub culture for 'neofolk' although that may be the bands new style. I feel this is because metal listeners will put up or embrace experimentation, but normally only if they feel they can still associate it with their metal roots, whether this is because of taste or 'peer pressure' in metal. Thanks.

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spirit_crusher escreveu:

there's a predominance of traditionalist/slightly fascistic/pretentious outcast/intellectual virgin types as far as i know but i don't know any neofolk fans in person

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spirit_crusher escreveu:

i don't see why Ulver are here, since they just made one folk album and their fanbase is something completely different. also, Agalloch and Empyrium are art metalhead pussy moisturizers :)

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spirit_crusher escreveu:

This type of fan ranges from the open minded, curious metalhead, to the pretentious indie fan.


it's pretty cool how metalheads are just being OPEN MINDED and CURIOUS while indie fans are just being PRETENTIOUS for listening to ulver

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NormanKuusik escreveu:

Why?

I believe stylistical lables are context-based anyway. That is, rather than the actual sound of a band, we consider their relative position in the history of music and the assosiations the band, its fans and the critics have made.

The concept of Ulver's Kveldssangers has been copied repeatedly afterwards, hence its importance and the band's (supposed) association with the neofolk scene even if the particular album seems to be one of themore irrelevant in Ulver's catalogue.

Empyrium is no different in regards of this Kveldnassanger's obvious influence even though the band was already going strong at the time of Kveld...'s release and not as folk-centred as it would later become. However, the band's Weiland does make a big step away from the cliches of this 'second' neofolk scene Thrica mentions.

I recall Agalloch having cited Ulver (alongside Katatonia) as one of their key influences, even though their iteration of 'Kneel to the Cross' does make a nod towards the older movement. Compared to the previous two, they also obtain a considerably larger catalogue of fully-acoustic songs.

More important than those properties, however, is the fact that in subsequent discussion, the focus has been rather on these particular bands (and you are no exception in this, Daniel). Other than being an obvious choice in the artist's connections, I have not really emphasised the 'neofolkness' (or the lack of it for that matter) of any particular group.

So why are Ulver, Agalloch & Empyrium here? Because you people have brought them here.

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DrCaligari escreveu:

I would say that neofolk is kind of "borderline genre". like, for example, ska music or dark ambient. I don't think that there is anyone who listens to neofolk exclusively and very little people who listen to it mostly. it's usually extension of interest in some other kind of music. gothic, industrial, noise, often metal nowadays, occasionally experimental. notorious crypto-facist trend, for example, is really an extension of martial scene. I was only on a few neofolk gigs but I think that demographics varies from act to act.

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