Melodic vs shredding guitarists

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- AndyP25 disse...
- Usuário
- Ago 11 2006, 21h37
Melodic vs shredding guitarists

What do you prefer? yea it's nice when someone can do both, but most guitarist (especially more modern players)are either melodic or shredders. How do you play? Which are your heros?

As for me I'm firmly on the melodic side. Playing with speed isnt difficult. It has never impressed me. I can play pretty fast, it's just a case of practicing technical exercises. I could teach anyone to play fast, but playing melodically is an art form (just my opinion, no mud slinging please).

What do you think?

[quote][b][user]AndyP25[/user][/b] disse: What do you prefer? yea it's nice when someone can do both, but most guitarist (especially more modern players)are either melodic or shredders. How do you play? Which are your heros? As for me I'm firmly on the melodic side. Playing with speed isnt difficult. It has never impressed me. I can play pretty fast, it's just a case of practicing technical exercises. I could teach anyone to play fast, but playing melodically is an art form (just my opinion, no mud slinging please). What do you think?[quote]

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- Aleks123 disse...
- Usuário
- Ago 12 2006, 0h24
=)

its cool to play fast but i prefer melodic

[quote][b][user]Aleks123[/user][/b] disse: its cool to play fast but i prefer melodic[quote]

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- timbishop disse...
- Usuário
- Ago 12 2006, 10h46
I enjoy playing fast as I personally believe this is the best way for my to practice technique and help me think on my feet, though this is only really when practicing.

In a song I think it depends entirly on the song as to whether you want to make a memorable hum 'a' long solo, or an exciting fast solo (Not saying the previous can't be exciting).

But can't a fast solo be melodic? I just don't think there's two kinds, the boundary is severely blurred.

I haven't got any cocking puns... 5 mins, 20 Batman puns and Stop looking at me!!!!

[quote][b][user]timbishop[/user][/b] disse: I enjoy playing fast as I personally believe this is the best way for my to practice technique and help me think on my feet, though this is only really when practicing. In a song I think it depends entirly on the song as to whether you want to make a memorable hum 'a' long solo, or an exciting fast solo (Not saying the previous can't be exciting). But can't a fast solo be melodic? I just don't think there's two kinds, the boundary is severely blurred.[quote]

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- Josh_38_80 disse...
- Usuário
- Ago 12 2006, 11h21
AndyP25 said:
Most guitarist (especially more modern players)are either melodic or shredders.

Eh? Thats not true at all imo.

Playing with speed isnt difficult.

Thats also not true imo. Playing with speed and accuracy takes a hell of a lot of practise. Im not talking about pentatonic legato licks btw im talking about alternate picking at high speeds. Its very difficult to master.

[quote][b][user]Josh_38_80[/user][/b] disse: [quote][b][user]AndyP25[/user][/b] said: Most guitarist (especially more modern players)are either melodic or shredders.[/quote] Eh? Thats not true at all imo. [quote]Playing with speed isnt difficult.[/quote] Thats also not true imo. Playing with speed and accuracy takes a hell of a lot of practise. Im not talking about pentatonic legato licks btw im talking about alternate picking at high speeds. Its very difficult to master. [quote]

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- AndyP25 disse...
- Usuário
- Ago 12 2006, 14h13
But can't a fast solo be melodic? I just don't think there's two kinds, the boundary is severely blurred.

Of course. See sentence 2 of my first post. But to my ear, many fast solos lack melody. Or at least it's an afterthought to blitzing through as many notes as possible. Dont get me wrong, I think speed can be a very useful tool, but I get bored when it's the only/main focus.

Eh? Thats not true at all imo.

Maybe it's a matter of opinion but I dont think it's hard to class many (modern) guitarist in this way.

Thats also not true imo. Playing with speed and accuracy takes a hell of a lot of practise. Im not talking about pentatonic legato licks btw im talking about alternate picking at high speeds. Its very difficult to master.

Again a matter of opinion. Like you say, it takes practice. But I don't think it's hard to achieve, if someone is willing to put in the time using exercises. From the people I've taught, speed can be learned by anyone, whereas an appreciation and understanding of melody is much more down to natural ability. At the risk of inflamming this discussion, IMO, focusing on speed can sometimes be a bypass for those lacking talent. I have seen this happen with many players (though obviously I can't comment on the pros out there).

I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks there has been a bit of a divide between Shredders and melodic guitarists. Rather than focus on the blurred area, what do people think about the guitarists/styles at the more extreme ends?

[quote][b][user]AndyP25[/user][/b] disse: [quote]But can't a fast solo be melodic? I just don't think there's two kinds, the boundary is severely blurred. [/quote] Of course. See sentence 2 of my first post. But to my ear, many fast solos lack melody. Or at least it's an afterthought to blitzing through as many notes as possible. Dont get me wrong, I think speed can be a very useful tool, but I get bored when it's the only/main focus. [quote]Eh? Thats not true at all imo.[/quote] Maybe it's a matter of opinion but I dont think it's hard to class many (modern) guitarist in this way. [quote]Thats also not true imo. Playing with speed and accuracy takes a hell of a lot of practise. Im not talking about pentatonic legato licks btw im talking about alternate picking at high speeds. Its very difficult to master.[/quote] Again a matter of opinion. Like you say, it takes practice. But I don't think it's hard to achieve, if someone is willing to put in the time using exercises. From the people I've taught, speed can be learned by anyone, whereas an appreciation and understanding of melody is much more down to natural ability. At the risk of inflamming this discussion, IMO, focusing on speed can sometimes be a bypass for those lacking talent. I have seen this happen with many players (though obviously I can't comment on the pros out there). I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks there has been a bit of a divide between Shredders and melodic guitarists. Rather than focus on the blurred area, what do people think about the guitarists/styles at the more extreme ends?[quote]

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- insilent disse...
- Usuário
- Ago 16 2006, 20h49
I am melodic guitarist. Sometimes like to listen to shred. John 5 for example. But he's got some melodic tracks...

[quote][b][user]insilent[/user][/b] disse: I am melodic guitarist. Sometimes like to listen to shred. John 5 for example. But he's got some melodic tracks...[quote]

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- AndyP25 disse...
- Usuário
- Ago 18 2006, 16h05
There are some interesting shredders out there. I enjoy listening to John 5 and also Buckethead.

[quote][b][user]AndyP25[/user][/b] disse: There are some interesting shredders out there. I enjoy listening to John 5 and also Buckethead. [quote]

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- disse...
- Usuário
- Ago 18 2006, 17h14
AndyP25 said:
What do you prefer? yea it's nice when someone can do both, but most guitarist (especially more modern players)are either melodic or shredders. How do you play? Which are your heros?

As for me I'm firmly on the melodic side. Playing with speed isnt difficult. It has never impressed me. I can play pretty fast, it's just a case of practicing technical exercises. I could teach anyone to play fast, but playing melodically is an art form (just my opinion, no mud slinging please).

What do you think?

You are pretty wrong with "yea it's nice when someone can do both, but most guitarist (especially more modern players)are either melodic or shredders."

Pretty much all proffesional guitarist can play fast these days, especially the ones in the pop genre shouldn't be underrated. They just don't get space to play some solos.

And fuck the term "shredders", just talk about the instrumental rock/metal guitarist, please?!

I've always liked technical playing, I repeat; technical playing. Which doesn't mean that I "like" fast playing.

I think that to be a "shredder" is a good thing, because; like it or not, they usually spend way more time to playing/music than the average classic/modern rock guitarist. Which is a good thing, and the good ones use their "technical wisdom" in their songwriting; Shawn Lane for an example.

I can definatly recommend to check out him, he's WAY better than KFCheadman and John 5. As far as technique goes of course, and songwriting as well.

[quote][b][user][/user][/b] disse: [quote][b][user]AndyP25[/user][/b] said: What do you prefer? yea it's nice when someone can do both, but most guitarist (especially more modern players)are either melodic or shredders. How do you play? Which are your heros? As for me I'm firmly on the melodic side. Playing with speed isnt difficult. It has never impressed me. I can play pretty fast, it's just a case of practicing technical exercises. I could teach anyone to play fast, but playing melodically is an art form (just my opinion, no mud slinging please). What do you think?[/quote] You are pretty wrong with "yea it's nice when someone can do both, but most guitarist (especially more modern players)are either melodic or shredders." Pretty much all proffesional guitarist can play fast these days, especially the ones in the pop genre shouldn't be underrated. They just don't get space to play some solos. And fuck the term "shredders", just talk about the instrumental rock/metal guitarist, please?! I've always liked technical playing, I repeat; technical playing. Which doesn't mean that I "like" [b]fast[/b] playing. I think that to be a "shredder" is a good thing, because; like it or not, they usually spend way more time to playing/music than the average classic/modern rock guitarist. Which is a good thing, and the good ones use their "technical wisdom" in their songwriting; Shawn Lane for an example. I can definatly recommend to check out him, he's [b]WAY[/b] better than KFCheadman and John 5. As far as technique goes of course, and songwriting as well.[quote]

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- AndyP25 disse...
- Usuário
- Ago 18 2006, 21h43
Reply to BBF

Cool. I may not agree but thanks for taking the time to write an interesting reply.
Maybe I'm mad but I thought there was an accepted divide between shredders and melodic guitarists. I'm not that interested in what they CAN play but how they express themselves. Maybe I'm wrong but I can listen to most guitarists and easily divide them using this classification. My problem is when technical/fast guitarists focus too much in this one area.
I never thought Shredder was a derogatory term. It's a term that I thought was/and is commonly used.
If you like technical playing that is your taste. Just like it's my taste that i can find it sterile and boring. I do like Buckethead for his own stuff but, for example, if you have heard him play a Guns'N'Roses solo, he has the speed and the fluidity but lacks emotion.
I think that to be a "shredder" is a good thing, because; like it or not, they usually spend way more time to playing/music than the average classic/modern rock guitarist.
My turn to say your pretty wrong. Exactly what is your basis for this statement? This isnt neccessarily true and my experience as a player and teacher makes me think that the obsession with speed and technique alone (as many players do)is a musical dead end.
I have heard some Shawn Lane and didnt take to it (nowhere near as inovative as KFCheadman) but I'll give him another try. Any recommendations?

[quote][b][user]AndyP25[/user][/b] disse: Reply to BBF Cool. I may not agree but thanks for taking the time to write an interesting reply. Maybe I'm mad but I thought there was an accepted divide between shredders and melodic guitarists. I'm not that interested in what they CAN play but how they express themselves. Maybe I'm wrong but I can listen to most guitarists and easily divide them using this classification. My problem is when technical/fast guitarists focus too much in this one area. I never thought Shredder was a derogatory term. It's a term that I thought was/and is commonly used. If you like technical playing that is your taste. Just like it's my taste that i can find it sterile and boring. I do like Buckethead for his own stuff but, for example, if you have heard him play a Guns'N'Roses solo, he has the speed and the fluidity but lacks emotion. [quote]I think that to be a "shredder" is a good thing, because; like it or not, they usually spend way more time to playing/music than the average classic/modern rock guitarist.[/quote] My turn to say your pretty wrong. Exactly what is your basis for this statement? This isnt neccessarily true and my experience as a player and teacher makes me think that the obsession with speed and technique alone (as many players do)is a musical dead end. I have heard some Shawn Lane and didnt take to it (nowhere near as inovative as KFCheadman) but I'll give him another try. Any recommendations?[quote]

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- disse...
- Usuário
- Ago 19 2006, 17h06
Yeah first of all, no hard feelings or what so ever, I'm just giving you my point of view on this subject.

I think it's just silly to dislike instrumental rock guitarist because they "play" fast, it's like disliking punk because you can't stand powerchords. Face it, it's just a part of that kind of music. That you're not a fan of the genre is another matter but it's pretty lame to attack instrumental rock guitarist on their technical skills.

I have seen Steve Vai live for an example; with the Metropole Orchestra, he wrote everything himself (including the Orchestra parts) and it was a hella lot more than "fast playing". But he's one of instrumental rocks best of course, I do dislike a lot of instrumental rock players because they overuse their technique, but Steve Vai blew me away with that gig.

And I'm not defending instrumental rock because I "love" the genre, not at all actually, I barely listen to instrumental rock but I (just like I have pointed out before) can't stand the argument "they play too fast."

Yeah, his whole Tri-Tone Fascination album haha, some good songs from that one;

The Way It Has To Be
Trois Sept Cino
One Note At The Time
Song For Diane

If you can't find it I'll upload it for you, lemme now.

Peace =D

[quote][b][user][/user][/b] disse: Yeah first of all, no hard feelings or what so ever, I'm just giving you my point of view on this subject. I think it's just silly to dislike instrumental rock guitarist because they "play" fast, it's like disliking punk because you can't stand powerchords. Face it, it's just a part of that kind of music. That you're not a fan of the genre is another matter but it's pretty lame to attack instrumental rock guitarist on their technical skills. I have seen Steve Vai live for an example; with the Metropole Orchestra, he wrote everything himself (including the Orchestra parts) and it was a hella lot more than "fast playing". But he's one of instrumental rocks best of course, I do dislike a lot of instrumental rock players because they overuse their technique, but Steve Vai blew me away with that gig. And I'm not defending instrumental rock because I "love" the genre, not at all actually, I barely listen to instrumental rock but I (just like I have pointed out before) can't stand the argument "they play too fast." Yeah, his whole Tri-Tone Fascination album haha, some good songs from that one; The Way It Has To Be Trois Sept Cino One Note At The Time Song For Diane If you can't find it I'll upload it for you, lemme now. Peace =D[quote]

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- AndyP25 disse...
- Usuário
- Ago 19 2006, 23h04
Cool. Nice to have a civilised conversation.

I don't dislike instrumental rock because they play fast at all. Like you say that would be silly. Like I said before, speed can be a very useful tool- I just dont like it when it's the only/main focus. There are some great instrumental players e.g. Jeff Beck. I'm certainately not going to dismiss the whole genre. Maybe I should have been more clear in the original post but the area I was planning to discuss is the shredders who focus on speed rather than melody (of which there many) against the melodic players who focus on melody rather than speed (of which there are many).

I've not heard Vai's orchestra thing so I can't comment. I'll look it up though.

I barely listen to instrumental rock but I (just like I have pointed out before) can't stand the argument "they play too fast.

Not sure where the quote comes from. Not me anyway. I've never argued that I dont like anyone because "they play too fast." Like I said it's the way speed is often used that I have the problem with, rather than speed itself.

Anyway, I'm going to step aside for anyone who wants to discuss this further (or not), rather than me trying to defend my statements.

O and cheers. I'll let you know if I cant find those songs.

[quote][b][user]AndyP25[/user][/b] disse: Cool. Nice to have a civilised conversation. I don't dislike instrumental rock because they play fast at all. Like you say that would be silly. Like I said before, speed can be a very useful tool- I just dont like it when it's the only/main focus. There are some great instrumental players e.g. Jeff Beck. I'm certainately not going to dismiss the whole genre. Maybe I should have been more clear in the original post but the area I was planning to discuss is the shredders who focus on speed rather than melody (of which there many) against the melodic players who focus on melody rather than speed (of which there are many). I've not heard Vai's orchestra thing so I can't comment. I'll look it up though. [quote] I barely listen to instrumental rock but I (just like I have pointed out before) can't stand the argument "they play too fast.[/quote] Not sure where the quote comes from. Not me anyway. I've never argued that I dont like anyone because "they play too fast." Like I said it's the way speed is often used that I have the problem with, rather than speed itself. Anyway, I'm going to step aside for anyone who wants to discuss this further (or not), rather than me trying to defend my statements. O and cheers. I'll let you know if I cant find those songs. [quote]

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- disse...
- Usuário
- Ago 20 2006, 8h52
Well I was just talkin' about all the guys who say that.

I mean, who do you hear complaining about Bach? Vivaldi? Charlie Parker?

They play at least 70% of their time fast as well.

Alright, I hope you like it =)

[quote][b][user][/user][/b] disse: Well I was just talkin' about all the guys who say that. I mean, who do you hear complaining about Bach? Vivaldi? Charlie Parker? They play at least 70% of their time fast as well. Alright, I hope you like it =)[quote]

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- Raelthelamb disse...
- Usuário
- Ago 27 2006, 19h59
I would say melodic. Except for Petrucci, who I think is very much both - just listen to something like John and Theresa Solo Spot and tell me that isn't melodic!

[quote][b][user]Raelthelamb[/user][/b] disse: I would say melodic. Except for Petrucci, who I think is very much both - just listen to something like John and Theresa Solo Spot and tell me that isn't melodic![quote]

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- VikingR disse...
- Usuário
- Ago 28 2006, 1h25
Neil Zaza is the greatest melodic player in the universe. He has a new album out, but check out the previous one Melodica if you can. Awesome stuff. I like too many shredders to name.

As for which I prefer, well it depends what mood I'm in. I listen to the melodic stuff generally for happy/sad/whimsical kind of moods, and shred for angry/determined/frustrated kind of moods.

[quote][b][user]VikingR[/user][/b] disse: Neil Zaza is the greatest melodic player in the universe. He has a new album out, but check out the previous one Melodica if you can. Awesome stuff. I like too many shredders to name. As for which I prefer, well it depends what mood I'm in. I listen to the melodic stuff generally for happy/sad/whimsical kind of moods, and shred for angry/determined/frustrated kind of moods.[quote]

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- Snorglorf disse...
- Usuário
- Out 9 2006, 14h07
Playing fast for the sake of playing fast sucks, but it's a good skill to be able to play fast. I don't consider most shred/speedy stuff music, the only exceptions being Dimebag and Steve Vai. They actually make it sound musical.

[quote][b][user]Snorglorf[/user][/b] disse: Playing fast for the sake of playing fast sucks, but it's a good skill to be able to play fast. I don't consider most shred/speedy stuff music, the only exceptions being Dimebag and Steve Vai. They actually make it sound musical.[quote]

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- bulkhead disse...
- Usuário
- Out 12 2006, 10h44
I prefer melodic playing... But sometimes I just feel like hearing guitarwanking, poor me! If I DO have to listen to wankers I'd chose Yngwie Malmsteen over any of those others, because I know he can do both wanking and melodic stuff.

[quote][b][user]bulkhead[/user][/b] disse: I prefer melodic playing... But sometimes I just feel like hearing guitarwanking, poor me! If I DO have to listen to wankers I'd chose Yngwie Malmsteen over any of those others, because I know he can do both wanking and melodic stuff.[quote]

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- xXfalafelXx disse...
- Usuário
- Out 12 2006, 20h04
melodic
shredding is for egos and speed metal guys, i dont like that

[quote][b][user]xXfalafelXx[/user][/b] disse: melodic shredding is for egos and speed metal guys, i dont like that[quote]

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- rahardjo disse...
- Usuário
- Out 14 2006, 9h58
definitely melodic!

[quote][b][user]rahardjo[/user][/b] disse: definitely melodic![quote]

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- ne0_29 disse...
- Usuário
- Out 14 2006, 12h33
I like both but shredding without melody is useless...and ugly.
It's nice to play a fast solo on a song but if the song is crappy...

Kentoc'h mervel eget bezañ saotret ! Brest da viken !

[quote][b][user]ne0_29[/user][/b] disse: I like both but shredding without melody is useless...and ugly. It's nice to play a fast solo on a song but if the song is crappy...[quote]

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- Sean3h disse...
- Usuário
- Out 17 2006, 15h12
There is melody in speed. A solo doesn't have to be slow to be melodic and emotional. Guys like Gilbert, Friedman, Satch, amongst many others, prove that in each and everyone of their songs.

WATP

[quote][b][user]Sean3h[/user][/b] disse: There is melody [i]in[/i] speed. A solo doesn't have to be slow to be melodic and emotional. Guys like Gilbert, Friedman, Satch, amongst many others, prove that in each and everyone of their songs.[quote]

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- carloss3 disse...
- Usuário
- Out 19 2006, 13h27
Well, melody is the cornerstone of any music so I'd vote for melodic solos. Fast solos are good of course but you can't express everything using only fast music.

Put some śmieci tu the haaasiok xD

[quote][b][user]carloss3[/user][/b] disse: Well, melody is the cornerstone of any music so I'd vote for melodic solos. Fast solos are good of course but you can't express everything using only fast music.[quote]

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- bornagainsavage disse...
- Usuário
- Out 21 2006, 20h47
I enjoy (to listen at and to play) melodic solos. Wether they are fast or slow don't care to much, just as long as the feeling is there.

And about the discussion if shredder solos can be melodic my opinion is that they can, but way too many guitar shredders these days only play fast to show that they can play fast, the only thing they care about is to put as many notes in the solo as possible. IMO that sucks.

/Magnus

Myspace

[quote][b][user]bornagainsavage[/user][/b] disse: I enjoy (to listen at and to play) melodic solos. Wether they are fast or slow don't care to much, just as long as the feeling is there. And about the discussion if shredder solos can be melodic my opinion is that they can, but way too many guitar shredders these days only play fast to show that they can play fast, the only thing they care about is to put as many notes in the solo as possible. IMO that sucks. /Magnus[quote]

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- carloss3 disse...
- Usuário
- Out 22 2006, 18h04
I Agree 100%

Put some śmieci tu the haaasiok xD

[quote][b][user]carloss3[/user][/b] disse: I Agree 100%[quote]

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- ManaLover disse...
- Usuário
- Nov 7 2006, 21h46
Agree with Magnus :)

I like solos that have real melody, that's why i tend to dislike Slayer solos, i find them too fast, and boring.

[quote][b][user]ManaLover[/user][/b] disse: Agree with Magnus :) I like solos that have real melody, that's why i tend to dislike Slayer solos, i find them too fast, and boring.[quote]

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- disse...
- Usuário
- Set 30 2007, 22h54
I prefer melodic guitarists, too.

[quote][b][user][/user][/b] disse: I prefer melodic guitarists, too.[quote]

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