Israel?

 
    • [Usuário excluído] disse...
    • Usuário
    • Nov 29 2011, 0h54

    Israel?

    It became a discussion in the shout box so I thought I'd start a thread on the subject.

    Is Israels government the in essence the same as the NS or isn't it? I am personally of the opinion that Zionism like any form of nationalist state will inevitably use the same tactics as the Nazis and that Israel's treatment of the palestinian population mirrors that of Germany.

    What does everyone else think?

  • From what I've heard Israel is leaning in the direction of fascism.

    On part of that, below is the text of something I wrote on my blog very recently. It's at http://devlin-mcaliskey.blogspot.com/2011/11/israeli-apartheid-and-palestinian-civil.html

    "Yesterday I found a very interesting and encouraging article ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15744576 ) on the BBC web-site. It's about a civil disobedience action by Palestinians, which also highlights the fact that Apartheid IS an appropriate term for Israel's treatment of Palestinians.

    Tom

    UPDATE 11/17/11
    I forgot to mention a few other things about using the term "Apartheid" when referring to Israel. I don't remember the details, but there are laws that make it very difficult for couples to live in Israel if one of them is from certain parts of the Middle-East and North Africa (and the other one is an Israeli citizen).

    And it's not just buses that are basically segregated, there are also roads that are segregated, too.

    And then there is the fact that the State is officially defined by a Jewish identity. People who support that should be asked if they think there will ever be an Arab-Israeli Muslim or Christian President or Prime Minister in Israel (according to the Israeli government at some point in recent years around 17% of Israel's population is Muslim). More generally, the Arab-Israeli population does experience a fair amount of inequality.

    UPDATE 11/27/11
    As the article I link to above says, Israel says that keeping Palestinians without permission outside Jerusalem is for security reasons. But instead of banning the small minority of Palestinians who Israel could credibly consider security risks, the burden is placed on all Palestinians to get permission. In a similar situation (both areas include natives and a settler populations of one sort or another) even the British didn’t go that far in relation to N. Ireland (they only banned a small number of nationalists, which was bad enough). The policy that Israel has is very similar to the S. African Apartheid laws about controlling the movements of Blacks and generally keeping them out of white cities unless they had permission to be there.

    If security is the motivation, I’d also have to ask, what about extremist settlers? MANY of them FREQUENTLY clash with the Israeli security forces (in both the West Bank and in Israel), and it was a supporter of settlers who assassinated Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin. Are any of them, for security reasons, not allowed into Jerusalem? I didn’t think so.

    So, security is not the reason. Bigotry is."

    "You’ve got a fine crew Captain, promise me you’ll get ‘em home"

    - Captain Ransom, Star Trek: Voyager episode Equinox Part II
    • chielk disse...
    • Usuário
    • Jan 19 2012, 8h52

    "Hasta la victoria siempre! Viva la Revolucion!"
    Ché Guivara
    Editado por chielk em Fev 5 2012, 20h02
    • [Usuário excluído] disse...
    • Usuário
    • Fev 2 2012, 22h58
    This seems to be more likely a dialogue of the deaf rather than a 'discussion'.

    disregarding the cultivated opinions you seem to strongly hold on to, (following a profusing comprehensive knowledge of Israel and its surroundings) I outspokenly ask how plausible it is for a seventeen, twenty years old young men which dwell hundreds to thousands of kilometers away from the Middle-East to comprehend each and every occurrence of the same issue that had put so well above?

    add to it a selective western media that does not hesitate to incline and misinform the news it has to deliver day in day out, the unyielding clamorous Arab outcry, Arab, because there is no such history, culture, religion nor language for a 'Palestinian', ...and its propaganda due to it. I hardly try to doubt you haven't bothered to check twice before embracing another superstition about the Israeli policy in the PA Authority.
    since I already noticed you've already rushed to name me (I've known you before, mmhm?) a fascist and my country the new 3rd Reich, I'll leave you with this solemn request; would you please enlighten me.

  • The Ethical Cleansing of the Palestinians seems very fascist to me.
    It's also one of the biggest act's of hypocrisy known to humanity.
    It happened less than ten years after the holocaust!
    The refugee camps appear to look similar to Nazi Concentration camps according to Westernern visitors.

    The media reports little on the Palestinian genocide. When they do it is always extremely biased. Capitalist America seems to be having a love affair with the nation of Israel.
    They consider Hamas to be a terrorist group when the real terrorist are the Zionists.

    I have a friend form Israel who worries about his family in Israel. The worries more about the Jewish Nationalist then the Palestinians.
    He has been accused of being anti-Semitic by the Zionists. That's seems to be a typical nationalist tactic.

    • [Usuário excluído] disse...
    • Usuário
    • Fev 5 2012, 23h58
    It is very distressful for me to witness even another person who had been brainwashed and poisoned for a long period of time, supposedly.

    Ethnical* cleansing? I'll simply count the amount of Jewish originated terrorists that acted against unarmed, innocent civilians in the last two centuries: the score is less than Three.
    now I beg you pardon, may I mention the amount of terrorist acts in the name of Allah by islamofascists (that enjoy your tail wind)? Guess what, I'll give you a discount.
    I'll merely count from 9\11 'till today,
    the number in the counter shows 18,386 Deadly terror acts (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/) and since I nearly drifted to a globally measured disaster, I'll put on table our very own dire, gloomy chronology - and that's, of course, if you are pluralistic and openminded enough to open your eyes instead of ignoring all that's around you by sealing your ears. See the numbers for yourself.

    A Palestinian Genocide, so much as you I observe the crimes of the western media and yet they underrate on publishing the atrocities of the 'Palestinian' people,
    firstly, let's get the definition of the word 'Palestine' as it is:
    "...following the historian Herodotus, Greeks called the eastern coast of the Mediterranean “the Philistine Syria” using the Greek language form of the name. In AD 135, after putting down the Bar Kochba revolt, the second major Jewish revolt against Rome, the Emperor Hadrian wanted to blot out the name of the Roman “Provincia Judaea” and so renamed it “Provincia Syria Palaestina”. The name “Provincia Syria Palaestina” was later shortened to Palaestina, from which the modern, anglicized “Palestine” is derived."
    The name Palestine is referring to the red-headed seamen Philistines, a folk that has extinct long before Mohammad was born.

    Obviously the camel isn't able to see his own hump, What had the Arabian propaganda done to you?
    did you fall in the tricks of directed 'massacres' as in the case of Mohammad Al-Durrah? Were you thinking the people of Hamas tried to save poor little children instead of using them as a human shield to protect them from the IAF?
    After they've been firing rockets and mortal shells from Mosques and crowded houses towards civilian population in Be'er Sheva, Sderot, Ashkelon and Ashdod?
    Oh these aren't by accident the same heinous terrorists who slained not-long-time-ago a family (two little children and a baby) in their sleep?
    aren't they the ones who dress their kids and babies in explosive belts and Hamas\Hezbollah handbands? Here.
    I didn't think otherwise...

    Your friend in Israel probably hasn't got a single clue, since the terrorists attacks subsided since the 2nd Intifada was over, when buses exploded like you crush bugs in your kitchen.
    I, such as many other Israelis share the same friendships with Israeli-Arabs like we have among the Jews, even the Arabs oppose the Islamo-fascism, children rapists and exploiters, women oppressors and hate mongers. Even they admit your 'Palis' act the wrong way.
    The netherworld which you desire does take place in the West Bank and Gaza, thanks to generous Fundamentalists from Hamas and PLO, they're often too busy to slaughter each other that they totally forget about slaying the Jews.
    I have been there, surprise surprise, Guess what? They don't starve to death, no one is executed or tortured without firing missiles or cooperating with the military branch of Hamas. Nobody's enslaved or slaughtered by the Israeli Defense Forces just like that. Your comparison to the nazi concentration\extermination camps is all out of proportion. you better be ashamed of yourself!

    It'll take more than few years or decades for degenerate brains (like you seem to breed in masses) to open up and look straightforwardly at the whole picture, and withdraw from seeing only what your eyes seeking, simply it is A war between two religions, I feel embarrassed I really have to explain that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1N1zhUm84w
    The saddest thing about people like you that incline to go a little further with their believes are rewarded with violence and rape, just like they treat with the Christian minorities in Gaza and the West Bank, This happens if you're trying to get close to them and you're not exactly like them.

    but in our pathetic world, people like you seem to fall into the islamic pit easier than expected. There is no greater Interest for Israel than making, at last, a substantial long-lasting peace!

  • I am aware that Islam is not the religion of peace. Many people have died thanks to Muslim fundamentalists.

    The Ethnical Cleansing of the Palestinians really happened in 1948.
    I will admit that you are partially right. I don't live in the middle east and I get my information from the media and internet. The media can't always be trusted so I am just posting what I have read. It's quite possible that you are giving me biased information too. I will never know unless I go Israel.

    I am aware that the "Quran" says to kill all infidels. Anyone that believes the "Quran" word for word can be a threat to humanity.
    I am not taking the muslim's side but I think Palestine should be considered a country.

    • [Usuário excluído] disse...
    • Usuário
    • Fev 6 2012, 13h02
    You're talking about the Arabian Nakba, is that a Genocide\Ethnical Cleansing?
    again you do not examine your words, you are wrong and other people might get the wrong idea just by hearing this.

    Still I haven't seen a substantial number of murdered Palestinians during the Independence war, nor pictures of so called 'massacres'
    comparing these to the Arabian pogroms before and after the establishment of Israel is ridiculous, that's going for the Arabian Mufti of Jerusalem collaboration with Hitler himself! they were planning to slaughter us once the 3rd Reich wins the war in Europe

    Nakba/Naksa is the nickname the Arabs gave to their defeat in war of 1948.
    In which, afterwards, many Arabian refugees fled to back to their homelands (i.e any close Arabian country: Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and even farther) by the command of the Arab league! Those who did not manage to flee back, stayed, without any support of the country (Jordan) that abandoned them after their loss.
    The Arabs, your Palestinians, rejected the partition plan conducted by the British mandate time after time! they've been given a generous opportunity while Ehud Barak had been the prime minister at 2000, and even an greater offer of a Palestinian country including East Jerusalem given by Olmert (after Ariel Sharon handed over Gaza Strip), in return for peace. how would you explain that?
    once the war was over The Arabs have banished nearly 1 million Jews (900,000) of their territories in Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Iran and so on and so forth. The Jews were kicked out of their cozy lives without any supply on their back, not to mention their property and necessities, money, Jewels and other assets. They've managed to arrive Israel after hardships I doubt people like you would ever comprehend, living here poorly for years till decades.

    Funny thing, even the arch-terrorist Yasser Arafat had spoke Arabian an Egyptian dialect, and was born in Cairo. if you seek to know their origins in Gaza and the West bank, I doubt how many of them will find it easy to prove their elders were raised and born in Palestine\Israel before the establishment. Those who did, in the majority of them are now Israeli-Arabs, some of them, like I mentioned, even more Zionist then me, given the rights they enjoy unlike the poor citizens in any other barbaric tyranny in the Mid-East.

  • A small number of things I have added to my blog post since my first comment above.

    1. An article about how Israel treats many Arab/Israeli mixed marriages, at- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16526469

    2. Another article about Jewish settlers clashing with the security forces is at-http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16158623 To be fair, an article about how, ONLY VERY RECENTLY has the Israeli gov't sort of cracked down on that sort of thing, at- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16425720

    3. An article by Juan Cole about how the Palestinians are a nation, and some other stuff, is at- http://www.juancole.com/2011/12/washington-actions-on-palestine-dont-differ-from-gingrichs-words.html


    Tom

    "You’ve got a fine crew Captain, promise me you’ll get ‘em home"

    - Captain Ransom, Star Trek: Voyager episode Equinox Part II
    • [Usuário excluído] disse...
    • Usuário
    • Fev 6 2012, 22h14
    Dear Tom,

    You hadn't even bothered to contradict the aforementioned, so as you ignore the Israeli declaration of Independence which states the judicial law of a Jewish majority in the one and only Jewish country in the world. to this issue it's not about simply Arabs, but a Palestinian, although is the first time I hear of such a complexity, it mustn't be just about her nationality. if you have any other articles beside BBC's, another manifested divertive Anti-Israeli broadcast company, I'll thank you if you post them.
    beside that, the fact that there are fifty Islamic-regimes (including the 22 Arabian countries) and their dominance that covers a third of this planet's territory and the majority of oil resources doesn't seem to bother you at all.
    In case you are implying these poor little men have nowhere to go, you are completely wrong. It's not a lie that you can find Arabs that define themselves Palestinians\Ex-Palestinians all over the world, it goes the same for even Manhattan.
    In opposition to the intercontinental menacing domination of the Arabs, you find it as easy as it looks to criticize the sole democracy in the Middle East which is as the size of New Jersey (that's about 1% of the Arabian territory, thanks for asking), You open your ignorant mouth as if it was something to be proud of.

    just a slight addition, I can give you what simply is tying the Arabian 'Palestinians' together as a nation:
    an inconceivable ignorance, blind hatred to every single person who's not exactly like you or supporting your cause which is taught since babyhood. Their undeniable beastly thirst and lust for blood of the infidels. The Shiite are close to the Suuni more than ever.

    Edited Feb 9th: I expressed the least I had to say. Unfortunately there's no partner to conduct a profound dialogue with in here. Concerning this group, I've only joined for one purpose in the first place - to have the ability to reply. להית'

  • I’m having some trouble undertsanding what you mean. with most of your comments. It’s at least mostly because I could be more familiar with the conflict and Israeli politics, etc.

    As I’ll explain below, I consider the BBC to be a good source, and based on that and some articles from other sources (The Nation, the Irish-Times, some mainstream American sources, and some other iscellaneous sources). I read an average of about 300 words a day about that conflict and related issues. I know enough to know that the Palestinians deserve my support, but no, I don’t really know enough to debate you on the subject : )).

    My response is ridicuously late largely because I kept forgetting to do it. I also needed to get some feed-back from a friend about what I write below, feed-back which took a few days because of trouble with email.

    Anyway, here are my thoughts about the BBC, since you don’t consider them a good source

    Tom


    The BBC is a very good, professional news organization. Even with N. Ireland, their coverage in the last 15 years (since I started getting a lot of my news from them) has been fairly or possibly very good (depending on how you define the terms involved; they certainly aren’t “great” or “excellent”). These last 15 years I have been reading an average of about 70 articles from Irish sources a week and an average of about 30 articles a week from the BBC. If I had a good reason to, such as an article from the Irish News saying something else, I would go with that instead of the BBC. The BBC almost always offered analysis I disagreed with to a large degree or totally, and there were two articles I remember being really pissed off about, so I wouldn't recommend you get more than a minority of your N. Ireland news from them; but they have been fairly-very good. And that's with a conflict between the Irish and the British/English that stretches back centuries and, until the early-mid 1990s, often involved bombs in England, and British soldiers being killed by republicans. I'm certain that they are reporting on the Arab-Israeli conflict professionally.

    "You’ve got a fine crew Captain, promise me you’ll get ‘em home"

    - Captain Ransom, Star Trek: Voyager episode Equinox Part II
    • [Usuário excluído] disse...
    • Usuário
    • Mai 7 2012, 14h59
    Israel with u.s.a. export democracy with the bombs...Fuck american friendly...!!! Sorry 4 my english...!!!

  • The states of Israel it's a terrorist state

Usuários anônimos não podem postar mensagens. É preciso fazer login ou criar uma conta para postar nos fóruns.