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The amount of trolling, flaming and spamming on this website is amazing

 
    • disse...
    • Usuário
    • Fev 23 2009, 2h23

    The amount of trolling, flaming and spamming on this website is amazing

    Now don't get me wrong I love last.fm, but it's amazing the kind of crap that gets posted on here. Whether it be people mocking the dead, calling each other "fags" or "gays" or "niggers" it has just gotten too far out of control. I've seen racists, neo- nazis, homophobes, and all other kinds of hateful people on here. I am a strong supporter of freedom of speech but something must be done about this, because it's really getting out of hand. This kind of thing especially seems to be quite common on metal shoutboxes. EDIT: shit, it seems as though I may have posted this in the wrong forum. If so it would be nice if it would be moved.

    • Babs_05 disse...
    • Assinante
    • Fev 23 2009, 3h07
    We do need improved moderation. There have been an increasing number of complaints like yours lately, I've noticed. e.g. this one and more, easy to search for if you want to find them.

  • Babs just posted the link I was about to, and I completely agree with you. Increased moderation of shoutboxes should be at the very top of last.fm's priority list right now. I'm tired of seeing ignorant or just stupid and pointless posts in artists' shoutboxes. Things here really are getting out of control, and it gets worse every month. It's so bad compared to what it was when I first signed up on this site... this site is no longer about discovering music. It's now about going to artists you dislike and saying "fucking faggot ass nigger" on their shoutbox. It's disgusting.

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  • I think that one of the solutions is adding the "Mark as (offensive, spam, etc.)" option next to shouts, so users can mark the offensive ones, and moderators could review and delete them, if necessary. If one user, for example, posts 10 offensive shouts, he gets banned from shouting for a certain amount of time.
    Last.fm does need better moderation and more international moderators.

  • Agreed, the majority of user content on this site is reaching beyond-pathetic levels. Pick any of the better-known artists, go to their shoutbox, and count how many comments it takes to find nonsense or flaming. I bet it's no more than 3.

    I've long since stopped looking "below-the-fold" on pages, there's never anything useful to be gleaned from there. Start moderating and we might have a chance to save the site. Frankly, the second-best alternative is to remove shoutboxes altogether. It's an abomination.

    • maz35 disse...
    • Assinante
    • Fev 23 2009, 11h37
    Yep shoutbox content has pretty much degenerated into stupidity with all the flaming.

    • Babs_05 disse...
    • Assinante
    • Fev 23 2009, 14h53
    We used to have witty, intelligent trolls who used to scare me in forums but even they managed to refrain from the low level dross we're seeing in artist pages today. Studley is right - there's little point at looking at shouts for the majority of well known artists these days. It's like the toilet overflowed.

    • disse...
    • Usuário
    • Fev 23 2009, 17h10
    Yes the Pantera shout box is a perfect example of this. I can't believe groups like "Glad to See Dimebag Gone", "Good Riddance to Heath Ledger", and "Against Overrated Dead Musicians" haven't even been shut down. Some mods say that making these kinds of groups constitutes free speech, but do you honestly believe that these people start these kinds of groups for any reason other than to upset others?

  • I agree with vgorrillaz, who said that there should be a "mark as offensive" button. If something is marked as offensive, maybe it should be minimized (like on youtube) and you have to hit "show" for it to be displayed. That would be nice...

    But I'm sure trolls would abuse that as well. Perhaps a thumbs up / down system like on youtube?


    I kind of presented this issue where other good ideas were posted in a thread of mine called "report post button." http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/500306

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    • Babs_05 disse...
    • Assinante
    • Fev 23 2009, 17h52
    I am so used to thumbs up / thumbs down on other sites, I look for it automatically here.

    Sometimes, users write great mini-reviews of songs / albums that sum up my thoughts exactly. Instead of c+p and marking it [2], I'd much rather click on a thumbs up. And of course thumb down those I disagree with. I like YouTube's default hide for posts that have been thumbed down by other users.

    • adamzZz disse...
    • Assinante
    • Fev 23 2009, 19h07
    The most played bands' shoutboxes are the worst ones, especially for Coldplay... such flame going on there.

    • disse...
    • Usuário
    • Fev 23 2009, 19h43
    I think a thumbs up, thumbs down voting system for comments would be great. It would allow for quality control without censorship. I also feel that a tighter banning system is in order, there are a lot of trolls who simply keep coming back here after being banned.

    • hildred disse...
    • Usuário
    • Fev 27 2009, 2h42
    Yes, or like users with multiple trolling accounts. After a while it seems that an IP ban would be more in order since some people seem to make a living off turning last.fm into a cess pool.

    • adamzZz disse...
    • Assinante
    • Fev 27 2009, 6h57
    What if someone is hiding his/her IP? If other people are using the same one, then other, normal users would get banned too ;).

  • I think it's commensurate with the amount of trolling and flaming on every other public web site I've ever visited.

    • hildred disse...
    • Usuário
    • Fev 28 2009, 5h29
    adamzZz said:
    What if someone is hiding his/her IP? If other people are using the same one, then other, normal users would get banned too ;).


    Yes, that's a danger, such as a sibling using the same computer, but sometimes if that's what it takes to get prolific asshats, I personally don't really care.

  • Personally, I have much more desire to zap the people who can't describe a song without using the word "amazing," can't respond to someone else without using the word "fail," won't stop drawing emoticons, make any use whatsoever of words like "teh" and "pwn" (I feel like an idiot just typing them here in quotes), constantly type the name of something they like followed by "ftw," and on and on.
    But that's just me. People can type what they want to type. I don't see why it's important to install a voting system or anything like that. You never get to like all the people you have to deal with in any situation.

    • meld0n disse...
    • Usuário
    • Mar 3 2009, 19h53
    I was going to make a thread pertaining to this same thing myself.

    There are plenty of forums, music sharing sites, etc., all over the web that are free and open to great discussion, community, etc., but that don't have "anything goes" policies.

    I'm against censorship myself, however I believe there must be certain limits. I don't understand how it's permissible for people to be openly racist, hateful and to purport violence against certain groups. Lots of great sites includes clauses such as "hate speech, commission of violence, etc. will absolutely not be tolerated" and I don't see how such a clause makes those places oppressive or a bad place to be.

    I just can't fathom how it's okay to come on this site and see people whose shouts (or even profile pages) say stuff like "Heil Hitler!" and "kill stupid niggers" and stuff like that. And the fact that there's no direct way to report offensive or possibly even dangerous content is really a shame.

    Hell, no large site such as Facebook or MySpace is WITHOUT the restrictions on public hate and without ways to report inappropriate content.

    I understand that as certain artists themselves purport racist or hateful ideology, it will in some ways be an intrinsic part of this site, but that doesn't mean that users should be allowed to flaunt their ignorant and hateful ways.

    If people want to hang Nazi flags and wank off over "Mein Kampf" in the privacy of their own bedroom, let them. That's none of my concern. But as soon as they begin to impose that on other people - things that are inherently hateful, violent and oppressive -- then I have a problem with it. Almost any major social networking site has clauses about such things and, what's more, almost any free, democratic, reasonable country in the Americas and Europe has laws that prevent people from going around doing the Nazi salute and saying "Heil Hitler". In fact, in some places you can be arrested for that on grounds of public propagation of violence and hatred. That being as it is, I don't think it's too much to ask to see a little more moderation and control over people's reckless and unabashed display of very disturbing and possibly physically harmful views.

    • DFA1979 disse...
    • Moderador
    • Mar 3 2009, 21h00
    meld0n said:
    If people want to hang Nazi flags and wank off over "Mein Kampf" in the privacy of their own bedroom, let them. That's none of my concern. But as soon as they begin to impose that on other people - things that are inherently hateful, violent and oppressive -- then I have a problem with it.
    Actually that's almost exactly the policy that's used here. People can say (almost) whatever they want on their own profile, as long as they keep it to themself. The line is crossed when they try to impose it on others - if somebody wants a picture of Hitler and some quotes from Stalin in their 'about me' then that's fine. If they go around sending them in shoutbox messages or PMs to users they consider 'inferior' for whatever reason, then that's very different and is certainly not allowed on the site (even more so if they're making threats).

  • [post removed by moderator: please, don't cross-post. A staff member has replied to your thread in the label support forum, informing you how you can have your tracks removed.]

    Editado por DFA1979 em Mar 3 2009, 23h40
  • Replying to a topic about spam, by posting spam? How very droll.

    Hey, you know what we need? A system to root out persistent spammers, possibly involving thumbs-up/thumbs-down/Report Abuse button. I'll start a topic ;)

    • meld0n disse...
    • Usuário
    • Mar 4 2009, 20h36
    DFA1979 said:
    meld0n said:
    If people want to hang Nazi flags and wank off over "Mein Kampf" in the privacy of their own bedroom, let them. That's none of my concern. But as soon as they begin to impose that on other people - things that are inherently hateful, violent and oppressive -- then I have a problem with it.
    Actually that's almost exactly the policy that's used here. People can say (almost) whatever they want on their own profile, as long as they keep it to themself. The line is crossed when they try to impose it on others - if somebody wants a picture of Hitler and some quotes from Stalin in their 'about me' then that's fine. If they go around sending them in shoutbox messages or PMs to users they consider 'inferior' for whatever reason, then that's very different and is certainly not allowed on the site (even more so if they're making threats).
    Mmm, you're not understanding me. By virtue of this being a public social networking site with profiles and pages that are openly accessible to all, posting something on your own profile page is NOT private. That's like me painting a Swastika with "Die, Jews, N—ers, and all Non-Whites!" underneath it on a public wall and when someone goes to the local gov't to get it removed, they are told "Oh, that's a reasonable expression of personal opinion. They're not imposing it on you; just don't walk by that area". That makes no sense. Similarly, if I hang a Nazi flag INSIDE my house, no one can do anything about it. But as soon as its in my window or on my flagpole, it's a public imposition and action can be taken against me.

    The Internet poses many interesting conundrums in this vein, but I don't think it's very wise to have the definition of "imposing on" to be that these people have to go out of their way to attack someone. By nature, the ideology, historical figures and activities that are tacitly or actively encouraged by these individuals are violent and threatening to particular groups of people. If that isn't reason enough to disallow public (this includes profile pages) display of these ideologies, then there will never be one.

    • rickskin disse...
    • Assinante
    • Mar 4 2009, 22h50
    squiggins said:
    Personally, I have much more desire to zap the people who can't describe a song without using the word "amazing," can't respond to someone else without using the word "fail," won't stop drawing emoticons, make any use whatsoever of words like "teh" and "pwn" (I feel like an idiot just typing them here in quotes), constantly type the name of something they like followed by "ftw," and on and on.
    But that's just me. People can type what they want to type. I don't see why it's important to install a voting system or anything like that. You never get to like all the people you have to deal with in any situation.

    Thank you for your sane comment.

  • rickskin said:
    squiggins said:
    People can type what they want to type. I don't see why it's important to install a voting system or anything like that.

    Thank you for your sane comment.
    OK, imagine I was a Coldplay fan (I'm not). Let's say I want to discuss their music with other Coldplay fans - say, on their shoutbox. A quick look at the 20 shouts visible on their profile (at the time of writing) reveals 4 spam links to other sites/groups, and 7 troll/flame posts.

    Britney Spears: 6 spam, 3 troll/flame
    U2: 6 spam, 2 troll/flame
    Muse: 0 spam. 15 troll wars :/
    Radiohead: 2 spam, 13 troll wars :/

    Granted I picked a lot of bigger/popular bands, so more people are likely to be drawn to comment on these, but how can you claim that there's not a problem?

    Users who engage in this sort of nonsense should either be banned, or be flagged to other users as morons. It shouldn't be so utterly impossible to have a sensible musical discussion on a social music site.

    Editado por StudleyUK em Mar 4 2009, 23h56
    • DFA1979 disse...
    • Moderador
    • Mar 4 2009, 23h55
    meld0n said:
    Mmm, you're not understanding me. By virtue of this being a public social networking site with profiles and pages that are openly accessible to all, posting something on your own profile page is NOT private. That's like me painting a Swastika with "Die, Jews, N—ers, and all Non-Whites!" underneath it on a public wall and when someone goes to the local gov't to get it removed, they are told "Oh, that's a reasonable expression of personal opinion. They're not imposing it on you; just don't walk by that area". That makes no sense. Similarly, if I hang a Nazi flag INSIDE my house, no one can do anything about it. But as soon as its in my window or on my flagpole, it's a public imposition and action can be taken against me.
    Personally, I'd say that anything somebody posts on their profile is much more like the 'hanging a nazi flag in my house' scenario than the 'painting swastikas on walls in public places' one. Fwiw, I wouldn't think "Die, Jews, N—ers, and all Non-Whites!" would come under the 'freedom of expression' policy anyway, that's far beyond merely stating a viewpoint.

    The Internet poses many interesting conundrums in this vein, but I don't think it's very wise to have the definition of "imposing on" to be that these people have to go out of their way to attack someone. By nature, the ideology, historical figures and activities that are tacitly or actively encouraged by these individuals are violent and threatening to particular groups of people. If that isn't reason enough to disallow public (this includes profile pages) display of these ideologies, then there will never be one.To some extent, there's a slippery-slope situation opening up if you do it that way. If you start banning fascist stuff, where do you stop? But I'm not very fond of the slippery-slope argument anyway. But a stricter policy wouldn't necessarily improve anything, the way this kind of thing is dealt with now comes from experience as well as ideals - the way it is now, those who act on the beliefs are punished, and rightly so. Banning those who do nothing other than display a few symbols tends to have the opposite effect from the desired one - it just makes them angry that they've been banned without having gone out of their way to do anything or harm anybody, then they come back with a new account and start to actually abuse people.

    On top of that, what does hiding it achieve? Hypothetically, if there was a 'ban-on-sight' policy being used and it was effective, how do we benefit? I seriously doubt that users displaying nazi symbols causes other users to adopt nazi beliefs (if somebody is suggestible enough to become a nazi based on seeing symbols and quotes on somebody's Last.fm user page, then that person's cause for worrying anyway), and you're not going to make the people who do hold those beliefs change their mind by virtue of stopping them from showing it on their profile. "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer", as they say - if you can't stop people having an ideology you disagree with, you may as well at least know who follows it.

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