UPDATE TOP FANS

- PudWhacker disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 17 2005, 20h57
UPDATE TOP FANS

for madonna, nina hagen and vanity. thanks!!!! us top fans need to stick together. xooxoxox

[quote][b][user]PudWhacker[/user][/b] disse: for madonna, nina hagen and vanity. thanks!!!! us top fans need to stick together. xooxoxox[quote]

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- simulacra disse...
- Moderador
- Dez 17 2005, 21h06
heh... Madonna was updated on November 14, 2005. which is great (without sarcasm). - okay, that Nina Hagen's last update is from March 12... not so great. :o)

so... it's a known issue that it takes some time for the fans to be calcullated. anyway, i haven't found any information about what actually does the update time depend on... why are some artists updated more often and others haven't been updated for over nine months? does anyone know, just to make it clear?

(and please... no "this-is-no-contest" answers. i know this is not a contest. i'm just curious how it works... the top-fans feature is a pretty good idea and will be pretty useful when it will work, at least for those who'd like to find fellow fans.)

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[quote][b][user]simulacra[/user][/b] disse: heh... Madonna was updated on November 14, 2005. which is great (without sarcasm). - okay, that Nina Hagen's last update is from March 12... not so great. :o) so... it's a known issue that it takes some time for the fans to be calcullated. anyway, i haven't found any information about what actually does the update time depend on... why are some artists updated more often and others haven't been updated for over nine months? does anyone know, just to make it clear? (and please... no "this-is-no-contest" answers. i [i]know[/i] this is not a contest. i'm just curious how it works... the top-fans feature is a pretty good idea and will be pretty useful when it will work, at least for those who'd like to find fellow fans.)[quote]

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- 3_French_Toast disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 17 2005, 21h22
My best guess would be that the main factor would be the number of people listening to the artist, or maybe there's just a general queue and it happens when it happens.

[quote][b][user]3_French_Toast[/user][/b] disse: My best guess would be that the main factor would be the number of people listening to the artist, or maybe there's just a general queue and it happens when it happens.[quote]

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- disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 18 2005, 0h54
Again, as stated many times before.

You don't need a list to tell you that you are a fan.

[quote][b][user][/user][/b] disse: Again, as stated many times before. You don't need a list to tell you that you are a fan.[quote]

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- simulacra disse...
- Moderador
- Dez 18 2005, 0h56
Re:

Quoth ILovePeteWentz:
Again, as stated many times before.

You don't need a list to tell you that you are a fan.

oh my.

sorry, but why do you think im telling "please no this-is-not-a-contest answers"?

please stop bugging with this. people just want to find other fans of the same artist, why do you mind? if you don't like this feature, okay, don't use it and don't care. and if you don't wanna help, please ignore the threads asking about this and do not flame.

thanks.

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[quote][b][user]simulacra[/user][/b] disse: [quote][b]Quoth [user]ilovepetewentz[/user][/b]: Again, as stated many times before. You don't need a list to tell you that you are a fan.[/quote] oh my. sorry, but why do you think im telling "please no this-is-not-a-contest answers"? please stop bugging with this. people just want to find other fans of the same artist, why do you mind? if you don't like this feature, okay, don't use it and don't care. and if you don't wanna help, please ignore the threads asking about this and do not flame. thanks. [quote]

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- disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 18 2005, 0h57
Re: Re:

Quoth simulacra:
Quoth ILovePeteWentz:
Again, as stated many times before.

You don't need a list to tell you that you are a fan.

oh my.

sorry, but why do you think im telling "please no this-is-not-a-contest answers"?

please stop bugging with this. people just want to find other fans of the same artist, why do you mind? if you don't like this feature, okay, don't use it and don't care. and if you don't wanna help, please ignore the threads asking about this and do not flame.

thanks.

hahaha woah no need to get all frisky about it.

[quote][b][user][/user][/b] disse: [quote][b]Quoth [user]simulacra[/user][/b]: [quote][b]Quoth [user]ilovepetewentz[/user][/b]: Again, as stated many times before. You don't need a list to tell you that you are a fan.[/quote] oh my. sorry, but why do you think im telling "please no this-is-not-a-contest answers"? please stop bugging with this. people just want to find other fans of the same artist, why do you mind? if you don't like this feature, okay, don't use it and don't care. and if you don't wanna help, please ignore the threads asking about this and do not flame. thanks. [/quote] hahaha woah no need to get all frisky about it.[quote]

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- poweroff disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 18 2005, 5h11
d00d this gets asked at least once a week. and it's a known issue. i really can't blame people for getting pissed off when this question gets asked so much.

they just randomly regenerate the charts. no explanation to it. patience son. patience.

and it generates on some sort of proportion of listens of whatever band to listens of everything. so that makes it fair for people who have been using the site for a shorter time.

[quote][b][user]poweroff[/user][/b] disse: d00d this gets asked at least once a week. and it's a known issue. i really can't blame people for getting pissed off when this question gets asked so much. they just randomly regenerate the charts. no explanation to it. patience son. patience. and it generates on some sort of proportion of listens of whatever band to listens of everything. so that makes it fair for people who have been using the site for a shorter time.[quote]

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- disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 18 2005, 5h41
I just don't understand why people care about this.

[quote][b][user][/user][/b] disse: I just don't understand why people care about this.[quote]

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- poweroff disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 18 2005, 5h43
Re:

Quoth maggotslipknot:
I just don't understand why people care about this.
yeahhhh, me neither

[quote][b][user]poweroff[/user][/b] disse: [quote][b]Quoth [user]maggotSlipknot[/user][/b]: I just don't understand why people care about this.[/quote] yeahhhh, me neither[quote]

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- 3_French_Toast disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 18 2005, 5h59
Quoth poweroff:
Quoth maggotslipknot:
I just don't understand why people care about this.
yeahhhh, me neither

Because if you are the top fan then the band will notice that you are the top fan on the site and will love you forever, inviting you on their tour bus, omg!

I agree that top fans can be useful for finding other fans of particular artists, but I've found more useful information from neighbors anyway.

[quote][b][user]3_French_Toast[/user][/b] disse: [quote][b]Quoth [user]poweroff[/user][/b]: [quote][b]Quoth [user]maggotSlipknot[/user][/b]: I just don't understand why people care about this.[/quote] yeahhhh, me neither[/quote] Because if you are the top fan then the band will notice that you are the top fan on the site and will love you forever, inviting you on their tour bus, omg! I agree that top fans can be useful for finding other fans of particular artists, but I've found more useful information from neighbors anyway.[quote]

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- disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 18 2005, 14h33
Re: Re:

Quoth poweroff:
Quoth maggotslipknot:
I just don't understand why people care about this.
yeahhhh, me neither
I do. Because my band is listed in last.fm, I'm curious to find out who are listening to it. And I'm also curious what last.fm considers as similar artists, but that list isn't generated either.

[quote][b][user][/user][/b] disse: [quote][b]Quoth [user]poweroff[/user][/b]: [quote][b]Quoth [user]maggotSlipknot[/user][/b]: I just don't understand why people care about this.[/quote] yeahhhh, me neither[/quote] I do. Because my band is listed in last.fm, I'm curious to find out who are listening to it. And I'm also curious what last.fm considers as similar artists, but that list isn't generated either.[quote]

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- mustaqila disse...
- Assinante
- Dez 18 2005, 15h59
Re:

Quoth poweroff:
they just randomly regenerate the charts. no explanation to it. patience son. patience.

and it generates on some sort of proportion of listens of whatever band to listens of everything. so that makes it fair for people who have been using the site for a shorter time.
The charts aren't just "randomly regenerate"d. There is a logic and process in which order the artist will enter a queue for it to be processed, it's all logical, no randomness involved ;).

The proportion thing you were struggling to explain is more so, an artist with a smaller profile of data, will need a smaller increase in listening data, than a large one will. Once an artist is deemed worthy for updating, it's put into a large queue, and the servers are constantly processing this queue but it's time consuming.

Thus a large wait is made, and the charts and fans will be updated eventually. But key to this all is patience, unless of course you're willing to donate, and help Last.fm obtain better and more hardware...

Moose > Ponies (and goats)

[quote][b][user]mustaqila[/user][/b] disse: [quote][b]Quoth [user]poweroff[/user][/b]: they just randomly regenerate the charts. no explanation to it. patience son. patience. and it generates on some sort of proportion of listens of whatever band to listens of everything. so that makes it fair for people who have been using the site for a shorter time.[/quote] The charts aren't just "randomly regenerate"d. There is a logic and process in which order the artist will enter a queue for it to be processed, it's all logical, no randomness involved ;). The proportion thing you were struggling to explain is more so, an artist with a smaller profile of data, will need a smaller increase in listening data, than a large one will. Once an artist is deemed worthy for updating, it's put into a large queue, and the servers are constantly processing this queue but it's time consuming. Thus a large wait is made, and the charts and fans will be updated eventually. But key to this all is patience, unless of course you're willing to donate, and help Last.fm obtain better and more hardware...[quote]

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- Mitya disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 18 2005, 17h09
Re: Re:

Thanks for the official reply, but...

Quoth mustaqila:

The charts aren't just "randomly regenerate"d. There is a logic and process in which order the artist will enter a queue for it to be processed, it's all logical, no randomness involved ;).

I think the original question was "What is this 'logic and process' defining when top artists get updated? I remember at one point (and maybe it's still true) that neighbors lists were updated only after total tracks increased by a certain proportion, which explained why, after a certain people, it took forever for your neighbors list to change. People might be more understanding if they knew why it took so long.

And, if nothing else, then people could just provide snarky replies saying "This has already been answered many times HERE."

[quote][b][user]Mitya[/user][/b] disse: Thanks for the official reply, but... [quote][b]Quoth [user]mustaqila[/user][/b]: The charts aren't just "randomly regenerate"d. There is a logic and process in which order the artist will enter a queue for it to be processed, it's all logical, no randomness involved ;). [/quote] I think the original question was "What is this 'logic and process' defining when top artists get updated? I remember at one point (and maybe it's still true) that neighbors lists were updated only after total tracks increased by a certain proportion, which explained why, after a certain people, it took forever for your neighbors list to change. People might be more understanding if they knew [i]why[/i] it took so long. And, if nothing else, then people could just provide snarky replies saying "This has already been answered many times HERE."[quote]

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- 3_French_Toast disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 18 2005, 19h23
But your "here" should properly include a link to the previous threads. :)

[quote][b][user]3_French_Toast[/user][/b] disse: But your "here" should properly include a link to the previous threads. :)[quote]

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- Excalibre disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 18 2005, 20h46
Re: Re:

Quoth poweroff:
Quoth maggotslipknot:
I just don't understand why people care about this.
yeahhhh, me neither
I don't understand why some people can't comprehend simple matters. And I particularly don't understand why they so proudly proclaim their stupidity for all to hear.

Some of us like to find fellow fans of specific artists. If you don't, it's not really any skin off your back that others do, is it?

[quote][b][user]Excalibre[/user][/b] disse: [quote][b]Quoth [user]poweroff[/user][/b]: [quote][b]Quoth [user]maggotSlipknot[/user][/b]: I just don't understand why people care about this.[/quote] yeahhhh, me neither[/quote] I don't understand why some people can't comprehend simple matters. And I particularly don't understand why they so proudly proclaim their stupidity for all to hear. Some of us like to find fellow fans of specific artists. If you don't, it's not really any skin off your back that others do, is it?[quote]

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- PudWhacker disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 18 2005, 21h22
are you all kiddng? firstly i never use the forum here and secondly - are you all saying you dont like lists? :lol: i mean i have to laugh - this entire site is made up of music lists. :rolleyes:

[quote][b][user]PudWhacker[/user][/b] disse: are you all kiddng? firstly i never use the forum here and secondly - are you all saying you dont like lists? :lol: i mean i have to laugh - this entire site is made up of music lists. :rolleyes:[quote]

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- 3_French_Toast disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 19 2005, 4h28
I think that it's the idea that someone is the biggest fan of an artist. See the group "Top Fans Are Useless" for more of that argument. It isn't anti-list. It's more about listening to music for the enjoyment of it, not so that a lot of people online will think you're cool because you are the number one fan of, say, The Strokes.

[quote][b][user]3_French_Toast[/user][/b] disse: I think that it's the idea that someone is the biggest fan of an artist. See the group "Top Fans Are Useless" for more of that argument. It isn't anti-list. It's more about listening to music for the enjoyment of it, not so that a lot of people online will think you're cool because you are the number one fan of, say, [artist]The Strokes[/artist].[quote]

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- Jeff42 disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 19 2005, 4h42
If last.fm thought this wasn't a useful feature, we wouldn't have it. Obviously they don't think that, and therefore it's valid to wonder when the lists will be updated.

[quote][b][user]Jeff42[/user][/b] disse: If last.fm thought this wasn't a useful feature, we wouldn't have it. Obviously they don't think that, and therefore it's valid to wonder when the lists will be updated.[quote]

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- simulacra disse...
- Moderador
- Dez 19 2005, 10h42
Re: Re:

well... i know it's incredibly cool and in to say "top fans are useless". if you won't mind, i won't be cool and in. i'm just curious how it works, it's in my nature... :)

this thread wasn't started to flame about usefulness or uselessness of the top fans feature. if those guys in the top-fans-are-useless group need to, may they argue in their group's forum, it's whole theirs. :o)

Quoth mustaqila:
The proportion thing you were struggling to explain is more so, an artist with a smaller profile of data, will need a smaller increase in listening data, than a large one will. Once an artist is deemed worthy for updating, it's put into a large queue, and the servers are constantly processing this queue but it's time consuming.

Thus a large wait is made, and the charts and fans will be updated eventually. But key to this all is patience, unless of course you're willing to donate, and help Last.fm obtain better and more hardware...

em... i've donated by my subscription already. :) anyway, thanks for the info. but i still say... it's strange. there are artists with few listens and artists with pretty many listens, and they are up to date (relatively), and there are others somewhere-in-between and their stats are like nine months old. so, probably the profile size is not the only factor.

okay, patience is a key. but not the only key, there's still an exact one and i'm curious about it, that's all ;) (i mean some formula saying e.g. when there's x tracks by an artist played by y people in z time and the charts weren't updated for more than n days, the artist will get to a queue and will be updated in cca m days.) if anyone knows it, please post it here... thanks. :)

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[quote][b][user]simulacra[/user][/b] disse: well... i know it's incredibly cool and in to say "top fans are useless". if you won't mind, i won't be cool and in. i'm just curious how it works, it's in my nature... :) this thread wasn't started to flame about usefulness or uselessness of the top fans feature. if those guys in the top-fans-are-useless group need to, may they argue in their group's forum, it's whole theirs. :o) [quote][b]Quoth [user]mustaqila[/user][/b]: The proportion thing you were struggling to explain is more so, an artist with a smaller profile of data, will need a smaller increase in listening data, than a large one will. Once an artist is deemed worthy for updating, it's put into a large queue, and the servers are constantly processing this queue but it's time consuming. Thus a large wait is made, and the charts and fans will be updated eventually. But key to this all is patience, unless of course you're willing to donate, and help Last.fm obtain better and more hardware...[/quote] em... i've donated by my subscription already. :) anyway, thanks for the info. but i still say... it's strange. there are artists with few listens and artists with pretty many listens, and they are up to date (relatively), and there are others somewhere-in-between and their stats are like nine months old. so, probably the profile size is not the only factor. okay, patience is a key. but not the only key, there's still an exact one and i'm curious about it, that's all ;) (i mean some formula saying e.g. when there's x tracks by an artist played by y people in z time and the charts weren't updated for more than n days, the artist will get to a queue and will be updated in cca m days.) if anyone knows it, please post it here... thanks. :)[quote]

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- 3_French_Toast disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 19 2005, 23h57
I wasn't saying that top lists are, in fact, useless; I was just clearing up an argument. I think that as long as people listen to music for the enjoyment thereof, there isn't a problem. I think that if someone is listening to music just so they can become the "biggest fan" on a website it makes the whole point of the list invalid. That person doesn't necessarily enjoy the music (in fact, they might be quite sick of it) for the music's sake. I do think there is value in the feature, particularly seeing who has taste like you in more obscure artists that don't show up in neighbor calculations, or artists with fewer songs in general.

As for me, myself, I've found new music via looking at what the "top fan" of some of my top artists listens to. I wasn't trying to flame anyone.

[quote][b][user]3_French_Toast[/user][/b] disse: I wasn't saying that top lists are, in fact, useless; I was just clearing up an argument. I think that as long as people listen to music for the enjoyment thereof, there isn't a problem. I think that if someone is listening to music just so they can become the "biggest fan" on a website it makes the whole point of the list invalid. That person doesn't necessarily enjoy the music (in fact, they might be quite sick of it) for the music's sake. I do think there is value in the feature, particularly seeing who has taste like you in more obscure artists that don't show up in neighbor calculations, or artists with fewer songs in general. As for me, myself, I've found new music via looking at what the "top fan" of some of my top artists listens to. I wasn't trying to flame anyone.[quote]

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- simulacra disse...
- Moderador
- Dez 20 2005, 0h16
...i didn't mean you to be flaming, french toast... :) sorry if it looked like this. it was a reaction on all those users who need to say they don't care about charts... and therefore are using last.fm. :o)

by the way... in case of really obscure (...what a word, in my language it has weird connotations, heh) artists, the charts are calcullated quite quickly (at least as i've noticed). and, sometimes it's also a good source for fun... once i've noticed that three of four front places, in case of one irish musician, are occupied by czech users. :o)) but maybe it's just a sign that we all do not value our own artists enough and are looking for the music somewhere around the world.

the neighbours feature is great in general, but if you're looking for people who know some not-so-known artist, the top fans feature is just perfect... browsing among neighbours would take ages, maybe without desired result in the end.

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[quote][b][user]simulacra[/user][/b] disse: ...i didn't mean you to be flaming, french toast... :) sorry if it looked like this. it was a reaction on all those users who need to say they don't care about charts... and therefore are using last.fm. :o) by the way... in case of really obscure (...what a word, in my language it has weird connotations, heh) artists, the charts are calcullated quite quickly (at least as i've noticed). and, sometimes it's also a good source for fun... once i've noticed that three of four front places, in case of one [i]irish[/i] musician, are occupied by [i]czech[/i] users. :o)) but maybe it's just a sign that we all do not value our own artists enough and are looking for the music somewhere around the world. the neighbours feature is great in general, but if you're looking for people who know some not-so-known artist, the top fans feature is just perfect... browsing among neighbours would take ages, maybe without desired result in the end.[quote]

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- 3_French_Toast disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 20 2005, 0h20
I don't know, I think that particular stat might just prove the universal appeal of music. And remember, with last.fm you're always dealing with a selected segment of the population anyway. Users are more likely to be young, probably more likely to be male, etc. But raw statistics can often be interesting and surprising, like the one you cited.

[quote][b][user]3_French_Toast[/user][/b] disse: I don't know, I think that particular stat might just prove the universal appeal of music. And remember, with last.fm you're always dealing with a selected segment of the population anyway. Users are more likely to be young, probably more likely to be male, etc. But raw statistics can often be interesting and surprising, like the one you cited.[quote]

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- avalyn2 disse...
- Usuário
- Dez 20 2005, 2h02
some stats

Been through the artists I took some data for at end of Aug,

44% have had their top fans updated in the last 4 months.
There seems to be some key dates when these lists are updated (perhaps when the servers are down for maintenance - maybe someone could confirm?):
20% on 28 Oct
20% between 4-6 Sept
10% between 25-26 Apr
20% between 26-31 Mar
with the rest fairly randomly elsewhere.

actually found updated yesterday! http://www.last.fm/music/BBC+Radio+Five+Live/+fans

Top Fans method keeps changing. This is the Old Top Fans formula with rationale. Discuss any Top Fans issues in the Top Fans Forum. Updated list of top obsessive fans here.
My wife's handcrafted jewellery website www.startrishdesign.co.uk

[quote][b][user]avalyn2[/user][/b] disse: Been through the artists I took some data for at end of Aug, 44% have had their top fans updated in the last 4 months. There seems to be some key dates when these lists are updated (perhaps when the servers are down for maintenance - maybe someone could confirm?): 20% on 28 Oct 20% between 4-6 Sept 10% between 25-26 Apr 20% between 26-31 Mar with the rest fairly randomly elsewhere. actually found updated yesterday! [url]http://www.last.fm/music/BBC+Radio+Five+Live/+fans[/url][quote]

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